Welcome to the Forum

Creating an account is currently only possible via registration at SimFin.

Possibly delete ARIZONA PUBLIC SERVICE CO 690574

Hi Thomas,

I found duplicate ticker PNW but after looking at wikipedia, it appears that one of them has been a subsidiary of the other since 1985 (entire period of SimFin data), so I think probably can delete the subsidiary data? (all the fundamental data of the subsidiary ARIZONA PUBLIC SERVICE CO 690574 appears to be duplicate of the parent holding company, PINNACLE WEST CAPITAL CORP 327292):

from wiki:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pinnacle_West_Capital
--
In February 1985, Arizona Public Service Company reorganized as a holding company, AZP Group Inc., with APS as the leading subsidiary.[2] It traded under the ticker symbol AZP. 1985 earnings reached a new record high at almost US$290 million, and by the end of the year the stock price had doubled from its 1984 low.[3]

In 1987, AZP Group changed its name to Pinnacle West Capital Corporation, and began trading under the new ticker symbol PNW.
--

Comments

  • yeah ok good find, I'll delete Arizona Public service. Thanks.
  • I see many duplicate tickers or no tickers when I download using API "Get list of all entities in SimFin" (all-entities). For some entries, (e.g. Sim Id 18 & 61595 => GOOG) I understand the reasoning. However, for many more (e.g. SimId 446632, 378141 => ES) I do not understand why two firms have been assigned the same ticker.

    Attached is a list of Sim Ids that have no ticker (I do understand why some of them do not have tickers) or duplicate tickers that I found as of April 2nd.
  • edited April 2019
    thx for the list ssathya, some of them are already fixed now but I'll go through the list one by one again when I have some time.
    our ticker extraction had some rare problems but we fixed this recently so should be better for future results coming from the SEC website (see also this thread https://simfin.com/forum/discussion/117/simfin-bot-2-authored-wrong-ticker#latest)
  • ssathya, I can comment somewhat on your question. I found the same list of duplicate tickers when I was analyzing the bulk download as well. There seem to be several reasons, but the most common are:

    1) (most confusing! and took longest to figure out) one of the public entities was acquired by another entity. for some reason, the database then uploads the acquired entity, so that the ticker then becomes the same as the entity that acquired it. this required quite a bit of sleuthing and reading about company histories on wikipedia, etc. it means tho that the historical original ticker of the acquired company is lost.

    the only way to solve this would be to fix the acquired company's ticker back to its original historical value. some (not all) of the ticker corrections that I submitted to SimFin were because of this reason; I tried to find the original ticker of the acquired company and submitted that as the corrected ticker. however, getting this downloaded automatically correctly initially from SEC would of course be more systematic and complete.

    then also maybe the correct historical share prices will also be downloaded for this acquired company (currently, with the ticker changed, the share prices downloaded are those of the new ticker; meaning that historical prices of the acquired company also currently aren't being downloaded).

    Hopefully the new fixed ticker download solution may fix this; we'll have to see, I am keeping my fingers crossed! (Thanks Thomas for trying to fix this.)

    2) another very common one is just a legal re-organization. GOOG->Alphabet is one example that you mention; but there are quite a few others, and quite a few of these are corporate inversions (there's a good hint because the Company Name of the new SimFinID has a 'plc' at the end of it).

    3) (rare) i think in only one case (maybe more? only saw 1 so far), the Ticker was actually retired when a company was delisted; and then some years later, the Ticker was re-used by a new, completely unrelated company because it was no longer in use at the time that the new company went public. I think 'ES' is the only example of this that I saw.

    (Thomas, I'm not sure how to make sure Share Price download grabs the "correct" prices for each of the companies using the 'ES' ticker in this case ... they are the same ticker but from different non-overlapping time periods.)

    hope this helps ssathya!

    charles

  • Thanks, Charles and Thomas for taking the time to go into the issue and Charles for the detailed explanation.

    I’ve some experience in dealing with securities and let me throw in my 2 cents. We used to have issues in handling expired Cusips, reuse of expired cusips, internal cusips etc. and though there was no firmwide solution that was acceptable, my team and users adopted the following approach and worked at least for us.

    On our securities database, in addition to issue date and expiry date, we added two additional fields: activity start date and last active date. This helped us to identify expired cusips and the worst-case scenario, reuse of expired cusips.

    Okay, how can we apply this to SimFin? If I’m not asking too much change “all-entities” to include an additional field “Last transaction date” or an additional API call that will provide the last transaction date for Ticker+SimId; this will let the user identify which SimId to use in the event a ticker gets reused.
Sign In to comment.